The food historian and author talks about the "deification" of the Italian nonna, the invention of tradition & other prickly subjects; plus, a 17th century recipe for stuffed eggplant
Karima is just wonderful and this interview with two people I deeply respect made my night. I was lucky enough to see Karima not too long ago when she came to Thomas Jefferson's Monticello to do a talk (and we ate a delicious Renaissance Mac and cheese dish!) on the history of macaroni and cheese, and its journey from Rome to African American culture as it exists in America today (thanks to Thomas Jeffersons enslaved French trained chef - James Hemmings).
Here, you answered a question I that had been bugging me. I have been delving into Marcella's Essentials of Italian cooking in a cookbook club, and her recipe for carbonara was just so off (so I thought) in that it had garlic and butter (and parsley I think) and I was shocked that this would be so. Well, turns out she (being a pre war Italian) probably wasn't under the impression carbonara had such a rigid recipe - because it didn't at that point.
I'm writing about this right now for a premium post going out later today, Katie. You're spot on about the carbonara, and Marcella's recipe is much like the one my mom made. I get that recipes can change and be improved over time, but I find the disdain for anything but the (currently) accepted method ridiculous. Thanks for reading and for chiming in.
absolutely ! It is truly mind boggling sometimes as we all search for the origin of thoughts, traditions and recipes so as to make sense of things and I find Karima's approach to subjects so educational!
I agree, and she does it without yelling or waving her arms for attention. There is always, always more than one way or approaching a subject, especially food.
How wonderfully fascinating and exciting—some of it known to me but some not. I'm still preaching about chicken parm not being on the menu in Italy, but Karima takes it to a much deeper and wider level. This interview has actually re-ignited my interest in the subject. The name Oretta Zanini DaVita comes to mind - I met her in Rome several years ago and was invited to her lovely countryside home for a meal I will never forget. I'm staring at two of her books right now in my library. Thank you for this. I will follow Karima!
Oh yes ~ I've been wanting to delve more into her work. The only book I have by her is the one she co-authored with Maureen Fant on pasta sauces and shapes.
Yes. My mom, who was from that era, and I talked a lot, and yet, she only spoke only a little about this period. I remember the rest of us in the family joking about Mussolini. Now I wish we hadn't been so callous.
I have been following Karima on IG for a long time and always find her posts interesting. My father and his older sister loved cooking together, but they frequently spoke of how their father was forced to come to Brooklyn because in the early 1900s he had no work in Campania, and the family was starving. They were better off here, but the food he taught me to cook was definitely not fancy!
Thanks-Fascinating article. On the recipe, is the removed interior of the eggplant not used in the stuffing? It sounds delicious as written, just want to double check.
Karima is just wonderful and this interview with two people I deeply respect made my night. I was lucky enough to see Karima not too long ago when she came to Thomas Jefferson's Monticello to do a talk (and we ate a delicious Renaissance Mac and cheese dish!) on the history of macaroni and cheese, and its journey from Rome to African American culture as it exists in America today (thanks to Thomas Jeffersons enslaved French trained chef - James Hemmings).
Here, you answered a question I that had been bugging me. I have been delving into Marcella's Essentials of Italian cooking in a cookbook club, and her recipe for carbonara was just so off (so I thought) in that it had garlic and butter (and parsley I think) and I was shocked that this would be so. Well, turns out she (being a pre war Italian) probably wasn't under the impression carbonara had such a rigid recipe - because it didn't at that point.
Thank you both for having this discussion!
I'm writing about this right now for a premium post going out later today, Katie. You're spot on about the carbonara, and Marcella's recipe is much like the one my mom made. I get that recipes can change and be improved over time, but I find the disdain for anything but the (currently) accepted method ridiculous. Thanks for reading and for chiming in.
Now I want to read her book on the nonne!
Definitely worth reading. Fascinating stories.
Absolutely! And I cannot wait to read her story on the carbonara !
I'm waiting too!
I adore Karima, and learn so very much from her research and her work!
Lots of food for though, if you'll pardon the pun!
absolutely ! It is truly mind boggling sometimes as we all search for the origin of thoughts, traditions and recipes so as to make sense of things and I find Karima's approach to subjects so educational!
I agree, and she does it without yelling or waving her arms for attention. There is always, always more than one way or approaching a subject, especially food.
How wonderfully fascinating and exciting—some of it known to me but some not. I'm still preaching about chicken parm not being on the menu in Italy, but Karima takes it to a much deeper and wider level. This interview has actually re-ignited my interest in the subject. The name Oretta Zanini DaVita comes to mind - I met her in Rome several years ago and was invited to her lovely countryside home for a meal I will never forget. I'm staring at two of her books right now in my library. Thank you for this. I will follow Karima!
Forgot to say that I love good chicken parm, as "inauthentic" as it may be!
Me too!
Oh yes ~ I've been wanting to delve more into her work. The only book I have by her is the one she co-authored with Maureen Fant on pasta sauces and shapes.
Just ordered her book. Taking it with me to Italy. Perfect companion!
Yes ~ I can't wait to talk to you about it when you've read it.
What a treat! I loved Karima’s book, it was very eye opening.
Saving this eggplant recipe.
Yes. My mom, who was from that era, and I talked a lot, and yet, she only spoke only a little about this period. I remember the rest of us in the family joking about Mussolini. Now I wish we hadn't been so callous.
Fascinating! Thanks for the introduction to these new-to-me thoughts on Italian food. Or should I say grazie!
Thank you for reading!
I have been following Karima on IG for a long time and always find her posts interesting. My father and his older sister loved cooking together, but they frequently spoke of how their father was forced to come to Brooklyn because in the early 1900s he had no work in Campania, and the family was starving. They were better off here, but the food he taught me to cook was definitely not fancy!
But I'll bet it was delicious! Millions of stories like yours, each similar and yet unique. Thanks for your comment, Nina.
Thanks-Fascinating article. On the recipe, is the removed interior of the eggplant not used in the stuffing? It sounds delicious as written, just want to double check.
Thanks for the catch, Cari. The eggplant flesh is indeed used. I've fixed the recipe.
What a fascinating interview!
Thanks for reading, Jolene. I enjoyed talking with Karima and hope to speak with her more on these subjects.